dog problems blog

Tuesday, February 13, 2007

Amnesty For Cruel 'Training Aids'

Recently I did a consultation with a really nice family and their two dogs, one twelve months the other seven months. They were of good temperament and eager to please but very exuberant. They moved around the house like a tornado and climbed all over people, family and visitors alike. Common problems that can be dealt with in a stress free way using Amichien Bonding. That was where I came in.

We had the consultation and put in place measures to address all issues raised. During the course of the consultation I was told that they had tried several other 'training' methods including the dogs being sent away for 'residential training' which involved not only the high cost of such techniques but also the sale of 'essential', extra 'specialist 'equipment for continuation training. Some so called trainers take the concern and commitment many owners have for their dogs as a licence to print money.

When the consultation was over the client showed me a piece of equipment he had been sold by one of these trainers. This piece of kit goes under a number of names 'German Collar', 'Pinch Collar' 'Prong Collar' and 'Spiked Collar' to use the most common. The client told the trainer that he didn't want it (he'd already been charged for it). The trainer responded that he wouldn't make progress without it, (so what had been happening at the residential training?). The client told the trainer that he thought such equipment cruel, and would not use it. And then the trainer came out with a real gem, he explained that it is not at all cruel but, 'just replicates the gentle but firm way that a bitch picks up a puppy'!!

I was given this unwanted piece of equipment, to take it out of circulation and to highlight the widespread use of such cruel methods.

For those of you out there lucky enough to have not seen such equipment in action let me explain how it is used. The chain is placed around the dogs neck spikes facing inwards, with a little bit of free play and then attached to a lead. The dog is then taken for a walk or put through training exercises. If at any time the handler feels that the dog needs correction he pulls the lead as quickly and as hard as he can. The chain rapidly tightens around the dogs neck and the spikes (or prongs as the users prefer to call them because "They're not that sharp") not only stick into the neck but at the same time pinch large areas of flesh between the quickly closing spikes (as I prefer to call them). The dog screams and is traumatised.

The end justifies the means say the supporters of this, and other brutal methods of 'training'. "Next time he'll do as he's told" they say. I suppose that I would be obedient if someone tried to rip my head off and dug bits of metal against my spinal column and windpipe. But would I like or respect the person who did it to me? Of course not. Would I work as hard as I could and to the best of my ability for that person? Of course not. Would I, given the opportunity rip that persons heart out and show it to them while it was still beating? You betcha!!
Another means of using this collar is when 'teaching' a dog not to chase. They may run over to see another dog in the park or maybe chase a cyclist or jogger. These are of course behaviours that are unacceptable but there are humane methods of dealing with them. When using the spiked collar to 'cure' this problem you once again put the collar on the dog. instead of a lead you fasten a long, strong rope or nylon line (15/20 yards) which you tie to a tree or metal post. You then set up a situation which sparks the chasing behaviour such as a jogger running close to but just out of range of the limit of the line. The dog runs, and on reaching the end of the line the collar tightens, the spikes dig in and as an added bonus the dog is flipped onto his back. In fairness I have to say this works, I have seen dogs so 'cured' that when anything is placed around their neck they urinate involuntarily and refuse to move in case some wants to 'cure' them of something else! What a way to treat mans best friend.

As you may have read in some of my previous posts there are many other cruel pieces of 'training equipment' out there which really shouldn't exist in a civilised country. Electric collars, mustard sprays, citrus sprays etc etc.

April 29th 2007 is the second International Day of the Dog when Jan Fennell, 'The Dog Listener' and her 'Associate Dog Listeners' try to raise peoples awareness of Canine Welfare in general and the prevention of Cruelty and Bullying in particular, by the use of a variety of events and publicity.

My goal for this years 'IDOD' is to encourage owners using such 'Training Aids' first of all to STOP and THINK and then hopefully STOP USING THEM. Most pet owners are not cruel, they only want the best for their dogs. They hit a problem and get misled by some quick talking salesman or carefully worded advert which tells them that if they buy product X it will solve all their problems in one quick fix. Because they care about their dogs but are panicked by some behaviour problem they find themselves the owner of the latest gadget which generally promises much but delivers little, if anything, to help either dog or owner.

I hope to go a little further than just getting people to stop using this equipment. My intention is to get people to hand in such equipment to such places as Vets Surgeries and Local Authority Dog Wardens rather like the gun and knife amnesties when people can leave weapons in a box at Police Stations, no questions asked. The intent would be the same. To take harmful equipment out of circulation. and to let people make a committment that they will no longer accept the use of such barbaric methods in the name of training.

I am the process of contacting Vets, local papers, radio and other potential interested parties asking for their support. Watch this space. If you have any ideas or can offer support in any way it would be great to hear from you.

Of course you don't have to wait until 29th April to stop using this equipment, you can do it today! If you don't want to make the trip to, or don't have a collection point near you just let me know that you've disposed of your equipment (and what it was) so that we can monitor our progress.

In an ideal world we would see all such equipment discarded but, if on 30th April, only one person has stopped using it then it will mean that at least one dog will not live their life in fear or risk permanent physical or psychological damage. That'll do for a start.

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11 Comments:

  • Yes this sounds great for you. I used to train horses back in the day and my dad and grandfather did too.
    They did it for years at a dollar a head---one dollar-- one "green broke" horse. These two men LOVED horses AND they also knew when it was time to save the animal AND someone's LIFE.
    I see modern training of horses and I want to laugh-- it takes three days and about $1,000 to supposedly teach a horse not to rear up.
    Well once a horse gets away with this behavior-- I would like to see you stop him from doing it from whispering in his ear.
    No a sharp whack on the head with a hammer handle works just fine. He will never rear up again and he won't hurt himself OR KILL the rider.
    Same with dogs. I have a choc lab and he wiggles into his "torture collar" do you know why?
    Because I only had to use it about three times. HE got the message and he no longer drags this aging man and himself out into traffic after a cat or another dog.
    To equate the sensitivity of the human arm to a dog's neck is absolutely assnine.
    These collars work and they work quick and then you put them away.
    I used it three pulls on my boisterous one year old and I can now walk him using the rope and my index finer and my thumb to control him.

    I"ll bet you'd love to have me give you $500.00 for teaching him not to do this WITH YOU but I know that the collar did not hurt him. When I put it on just for drill-- HE wiggles into it. He never yelps or cries and he NEVER pulls hard on the lead.
    IF a dog is in pain he yelps and most of them yelp LOUD.
    Don't give me this bull it makes me understand what you are about. Shaming pet owners into hiring YOU to pay YOU hundreds of dollars and probably you have one hidden in you bag of tricks anyway.

    Justice

    Sure

    By Anonymous Justice, at December 10, 2007 3:08 AM  

  • Oh and by the way...The horses that three generations of my family trained? They were ALWAYS THE envy of other riders.

    "Why is your horse so well behaved?" Why do they seem to LOVE getting out and don't want to run home?"

    Well because they were trained right the first time and didn't go through a bunch mamby pamby crap that worked if you talked just right. IF they displayed a dangerous behavior such as biting,kicking or rearing up---they were dealth with firmly and justly and NO harm came to them OR the rider IF they were not hurt on the first time around.

    Try to talk a biting horse out of biting.
    Nope-- just get one of those little kiddy bats and wrap it with cloth and then--when the horse does his deeed. Babe Ruth right on the end of the nose and the wonderful animal will not hurt anyone anymore and he will be loved and get lots of attention becuase people won't be afraid to handle him,
    OR PAY YOU three thousand dollars and get results that work if you wear green everyday.
    Look I know that YOU are probably on the up and up and I know an animal behavior specialist very well who is wonderful with cats and is WONDERFUL with all animals AND it just isn't what you people portray it to be. This thing LOOKS terrible but have you ever checked out a BIT for a horse with tongs etc.

    The Horses I trained ALWAYS graduated DOWN from a bit to a Hackamore and then did not live their whole lives with people Yanking on their mouths why>

    Because the severe tool was used correctly and in a VERY timely manner and so it served its purpose and THEN it was DISCARDED forever FOR THAT ANIMAL.
    IF someone is using this kind of collar on a dog for more than a few walks--then THEY are doing something wrong.
    Sometimes YOUNG powerful dogs have to have one of these used when they have not been exercised in days but just about two minutes with it-- a couple of PROPERLY timed tugs NOT YANKS! and the dog remembers that pulling is not OK.

    This is a useful tool for teaching an animal that it is NOT the boss.

    Not all of us can afford the dog whisperer.

    Give me a break.

    By Anonymous Justice, at December 10, 2007 4:09 AM  

  • Well here we are again readers. An expert who doesn't want people to know his name or anything else about him. We must just accept that he knows everything and we mustn't question it. Well I will ask some questions and make some comments. I won't say to much about horses because unlike 'Justice' (what a strange choice of name) I am not an expert on that species. What I do know is that as a retired Police Officer with 35 years service if I'd seen anyone giving a horse 'a sharp whack on the head with a hammer handle' at the very least we would have had a 'full and frank exchange of views' and the very likely outcome for macho man would be a trip to the Police Station to discuss the matter at much greater length. I'd enjoy watching him explain to the Magistrate that it was in the interest of the animal to hit him around the head with a lump of wood.

    'Justice' has not read very much of my website or blog or he would know that I don't whisper in dogs ears. I am a 'Dog Listener' not a Dog Whisperer. I use the Amichien Bonding method of Canine Communication as devised by Jan Fennell perhaps he'd like to read the post 'Why use Amichien Bonding?' on this blog.

    'Justice' has a Chocolate Labrador that 'wiggles into his torture collar' yeah right!

    The arguments to justify (NOW I know why he calls himself 'Justice') start to unravel at this point. He claims that he only had to use it 'about' 3 times. So how many times was it? 3? 4? 5? 6? Surely you remember how many times in using this equipment on your dog you said to him "Do what I want or I will hurt you, a lot."

    'Justice' says that it is wrong to equate the human arm with a canine neck and of course he's right. The arm doesn't have a windpipe or spine close to the surface and so will have no affect on the humans breathing when applied to the arm. Put it around a dogs neck and the spikes will cause stress, pain and injury to the dog. that is the whole point in having large spikes that gouge into the skin and then close up and trap and pinch large areas of loose skin. Once again it's "Do what I want or I will hurt you." Please don't say that you don't pull hard because I don't believe it. I have seen too many of these being used and never with the 'just a pull' that you would have us believe worked for you.

    You tell us 'Justice' that 'these collars work, they work quick and then you put them away'. If that is so why do you then say later in your post how much your dog loves it when you put it on 'just for drill'. But hang on that can't be right can it? You've just said that you used three little tugs and then you put it away. Could it be that you still put this kit on your dog when not needed? It wouldn't be to remind him that you still have the poweer to hurt him would it?

    'Justice' is right about a number of things though . Dogs do yelp or scream when in pain and when a spiked collar is used on them they WILL suffer pain.

    I do have a spike collar in my bag, also an electric collar and a riding crop to beat a dog to 'teach respect' All of thes were given to me by clients who were advised by 'experts' that they needed this kit to make progress with their dogs. The equipment is used to show people what we are talking about in our campaign to make all such devices illegal. I am sometimes ashamed to be a member of the human race when people justify cruelty.

    Oh and I don't charge $500 I'm British, Dammit!

    By Blogger Robin Glover, at December 10, 2007 9:11 PM  

  • I just have to add a couple of things because 'Justice' has sent another post telling us all how good he is.

    Because I am against hurting animals I am a 'Namby Pamby' another indication that he has no idea of my background. There are a lot of criminals both in and out of prison who wouldn't recognise that description of me. Have a look at the 'Police Dog Training' clips on this blog and you'll see that you can have a highly trained powerful police dog without having to brutalise either the dog or yourself.

    In the earlier post Justice decided that I charged $500 now only a few minutes later he's upped my prices to $3000 no wonder the US economy is in freefall if people like 'Justice' are running it.

    I'll say it again I'm in England not the U.S.A.

    By Blogger Robin Glover, at December 10, 2007 9:27 PM  

  • 'the horses I trained always graduated down from a bit to a Hackamore' - that's a laugh!. A bit lies across the tongue and bars of the mouth, which are extremely sensitive. If a bad rider uses a bit severely on a horse's mouth, nerves are destroyed and so the rider uses increasingly severe bits. Eventually the mouth becomes so permanently damaged that a bit will not work - a rider would then use a Hackamore (hardly 'graduating down'!). A Hackamore is used in place of a bit and acts by leverage on the poll (just behind a horse's ears), the nose and the chin groove - all very sensitive areas and still subject to damage. Hackamores are made from metal covered in padding. As the rider causes more damage with the Hackamore, less padding would be used. Someone even told me a story of no padding being used at all - wonder who could have done that!

    By Anonymous JazK9, at December 10, 2007 11:12 PM  

  • Hello Robin, I am continually amazed that some people expect dogs to understand what we ask of them instantly. 'Justice' says that this TOOL can cure pulling in just two tugs. Hmmmm then why does he still have to use it to drill his dog?
    What would he do if a child didn't do exactly what he wanted straight away? Or any other human to that point?
    He obviously feels he serves justice his way. Lets hope no-one upsets him eh!
    I too have had the pleasure of Amichien Bonding training from Jan Fennell and can catogorically state that this amazing method has solved ALL of the issues that my dogs had. Including - wait for it.... pulling on the lead. All you need is to be calm and consistant, I did not need to bully or hurt my dogs in any way. I have have dogs that do as I ask, including walking to heel, because they want to .. not because they are scared of being hurt. Yes it takes time, but hey, what else have we got? If not time for our dogs then maybe we should not have them.
    Could this be another part of us
    want everything NOW?
    I am lucky, I now have the most amazing relationship with my dogs. They accept me as a kind and loving leader.
    You see Justice, you can be kind and loving and still be a very effective leader, not only to dogs but in all walks of life. People respect that in other people too.
    All I can say is thanks to this method my whole families life has taken a turn for the better.
    Justice I wish you that too.

    Oh and even the consultation with Jan Fennell did not cost $1000's!!


    Fiona

    By Anonymous Fiona, at December 11, 2007 6:21 PM  

  • You are describing abuses of the prong collar. Don't compare that to a responsible dog owner who uses it as an aid to train a "puller". My dog was instantly cured of his sled dog habit when I used the prong, and I never had to pull on it. His tail wagged the entire time and did not appear to be in any discomfort. You sound like a a liberal reactionary type who has no experience whatsoever with the collar. Stop spreading bad information.

    By Blogger Michael, at February 16, 2008 1:39 AM  

  • I expect you to censor my post and not publish it, by the way, since the only comments published are by those who agree with your views.

    By Blogger Michael, at February 16, 2008 1:41 AM  

  • I'm sorry if I've offended you with my opinion. It was not my intention to upset anyone, but just saying that these collars don't hurt does not make it so. When a large male angry with his dog takes a two handed hold of the lead and gives a hard, fast yank (usually because he's been told by a trainer that it will cure the behaviour)it hurts and injures the dog both physically and psychologically. Please don't tell me that it doesn't happen because it does. I've been earning my living with dogs for over 30 years and I've seen this used many hundreds of times. If you only need it to apply gentle correction then you dont need it at all, there are stress free ways that are quicker and more effective than brute force and ignorance.

    If this equipment is not inherently cruel then why are manufacturers and users so coy about what it is called? On introduction they were called 'Spike or Spiked' collars and then when people were put off by the name the name mutated to 'Pinch' collar 'German' training collar and of course 'Prong' collar. No matter what you call it, the equipment, intent and result is the same. Do you think you'd be allowed to use this on convicted criminals? Amnesty International and your local Civil Rights groups would be up in arms.

    Some people justify the use of such equipment by saying that damage caused by 'choke chains' being as bad as spiked collars. Even here there is wordplay, the correct word the manufacturers would say is 'check chain'. As you know if put on one way (check) it releases at once and if put on the other way (choke) it locks when pulled reducing the dogs airflow and potentially suffocating them. Just saying that a choke chain is also cruel no justification it's like asking someone if they'd prefer to be shot or stabbed. There is no need to use either of these pieces of equipment to train your dog. It can be done easier, quicker, more kindly and efficiently with either a slip lead or conventional collar and lead.

    Many people out there use these collars (and electric shock ones) not because they are bad people, they are dog lovers, but because they have been badly advised to by 'experts' who conveniently have them for sale. The owner has a problem goes to a 'trainer' who tells them that this is the way to go. Any concerns of cruelty are brushed aside. Take the collar off your dog and examine it, move it slowly and see the dynamics and mechanics of it. as I mentioned one of its names is 'pinch' collar. As the lead is pulled the spikes close and pinch areas of flesh around the neck area as well as digging into the neck and throat tissue. If it didn't hurt it wouldn't work in fact it doesn't work even then because the dog is only obedient because he doesn't want pain. Imagine working for a boss who said "Do what I want or I will hurt you." Would you do your best for him? Of course not. How about using it on your children? How long would it be before Social Services took them off you and placed them in care?

    I do not base my opinion on the 'Barbaric' look of the equipment but on evidence. I served as a Police Officer for 35 years all in front line policing on elite units including Special Patrol Group at Scotland Yard. Everything I did had to be evidence based. And the evidence of my own eyes, seeing this equipment used in a variety of scenarios, talking to vets, by seeing the results of it on animals seized after being brutalised and traumatised by ' owners or trainers' and by the sheer distress of both owners and dogs who come to me having been through the hands of people who advocate these methods, and see that it has their dog being at best, confused as to his role. To be able to turn these dogs around and see fire in their belly and light in their eyes again is a wonderful feeling.

    Many of the worst offenders are the trainers who take dogs away from their owners and return them 'trained'. Why don't they want the owner present during the training? Surely that would better? At least every couple of months I get call from someone who has used such a facility and whose dog is now stressed and nervous particularly if touced around the neck area, responses range from aggression to shaking and involuntary urination and in almost every case included in the 'continuation training pack' which the owner buys is one of these collars. Often the owner will also get a sales pitch to buy an electric shock collar for 'advanced training' you can't beat technology, now you can traumatise your dog at a distance.

    Do a bit of research have a good look at website and blog you'll see I'm not a tree hugging pinko lefty as one respondent called me (Well they were selling electric collars). If you decide that you would like to truly understand your dogs with no gadgets or compulsion then try Amichien Bonding there are qualified Dog Listeners all over the world
    As I said at the beginning I'm not out to upset anyone except that hardcore of people who are intentionally cruel to their animals. My aim is to educate and get dog owners to say "Perhaps there is another way." Don't forget everytime you use any form of force or compulsion on your dog you suffer stress as well. You don't say what you do for a living but if you're in a stressfull occupation that won't help your well being. owning a dog should be a joy and relaxing.

    Keep safe.

    By Blogger Robin Glover, at February 22, 2008 8:13 PM  

  • You are wrong for the most part.

    The part that you are right about is that most training aids in the hands of the wrong person can be dangerous to the pet. This includes the prong collar. You highly exaggerate, however, the fact that an informed trainer can use this with little to no force, and clearly communicate to the dog.

    Properly used, this is probably one of the most humane ways to train a dog. Communication with my dog takes a slight flick of the finger. The prong collar delivers a slight pinch, and the dog looks to me for direction. He has learned fast, that I am in control, and he needs to pay attention to the pack leader. It never took a hard jerk, and the dog never yelped. He enjoys his walks more than ever. You are biased and uninformed on the correct use of the prong collar. Do some more research.

    By Blogger Patrick, at April 03, 2008 4:11 PM  

  • Patrick, you tell me to do some more research. How many times do you have to stick your hand in the fire before you know it hurts? Perhaps if it's someone elses hand it doesn't matter, try it a few more times to make sure?

    If Patrick had thoroughly read all of my blogs and website (or done some more research as he suggests), he would have seen that I have done just that. I have had dogs from childhood and earned my living from them for over thirty years. And not just one type. I trained and worked my Police Dogs including both patrol dogs and drug detection. and in my role as a 'Dog Listener' I have dealt with hundreds of breeds and problems. These range from the 'usual' behaviour issues that people like to stereotype certain breeds with to the more unusual such as a Chihuahua who acted like a homicidal maniac and the large Bull Breed' that was frightened of everything. And every kind of behaviour in between. They have all been dealt with successfully without recourse to having to hurt them.

    It's only a slight pinch says Patrick. That's ok then, you only hurt your dog 'a little bit'. Perhaps the next time you want your child's attention you should pinch them (but only a little bit).

    "It only takes a slight pinch and the dog looks to me for direction". I would suggest that when the dog looks at you his thought process is more along the lines of, "You bastard! What did you do that for? I'm trying my best and you keep hurting me." What is wrong with mutual respect, showing the dog what is required without resorting to physical punishment however mild?

    Patrick says that I am biased and he is right.I make no apology for it. Having seen these cruel, and I do mean cruel, gadgets, in action over a large period of years, including by, in fact particularly by 'informed trainers'. Nothing will convince me that there is any benefit in their use other than to the companies that manufacture them or the trainers who find it easier to follow the 'Do what I want or I will hurt you' school of thought because it's so much easier than understanding the dog isn't it?.

    I'm sure Patrick is a dog lover and doesn't WANT to hurt his dog. No doubt he was told to 'be a man' or 'take no crap' from his dog. I do urge him to sit down and analyse what he is doing to his dog and how the dog perceives what's going on. Leave machismo, testosterone and 'what the other guys might say' out of the equation and I'm sure that he'll reach the right conclusion and allow his dog to come to peace.

    If you're worried that not being hard on the dog will make him soft then click on the following links. The first one shows 'heelwork' with a young dog and the second 'manwork' or biting, with the same animal at age 9/10 months. Read the text before viewing the clips so that you know what you're are seeing. these clips along with others are available elsewhere on this blog, I've just put them here for ease of access

    http://www.robinglover.com/blog/2007/07/police-dog-training-heelwork-and.html

    http://www.robinglover.com/blog/2007/09/police-dog-training-5-manwork-biting.html

    It never matters what the dog does. It's what we do to rectify it that makes the difference between stressed or happy dogs and owners

    By Blogger Robin Glover, at April 22, 2008 11:06 AM  

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